When my elder son and daughter approached their teens I got my daughter this book: Ready, Set, Grow!: A What's Happening to My Body? Book for Younger Girls , and this book for my son: What's Going on Down There: Answers to Questions Boys Find Hard to Ask . I truly thought this is the logical thing to do since they are growing up and I am positive they have many question and doubts about what is going on in their bodies. I did not want them to get their information from unreliable sources and I wanted an entry point to discuss these issues with them.I’ve put a great effort into choosing the right books. I ordered many, but decided to give them just these two books. I looked for books with simple and basic information, simple language, cartoon and not so graphical illustrations and scientific rather than social approach to sex education. The latter condition was because many books are American based and address the issue from the angle of “have sex but make it safe”. I thought it was too early to get into this discussion and too complicated to draw the cultural distinctions.
I was amazed by the angry calls and discussions I got from the mothers of my kids’ friends. They thought it was “inappropriate” to introduce children to such information. Some feared that this will “mess up” their kids’ heads. Others thought it was too soon to “open their eyes” to such issues. Others cautioned me against raising my children with such “Western” and “free” environment.
Was I wrong? I really don’t think so. I believe that these books or something similar should have been part of their school curriculum. It should not be left to the parents’ initiative and/or preference. Children should have sources for scientific and practical information about their sexual development. They should be able to turn to their parents and teachers as the primary reference for such information. Otherwise their alternatives are the hearsay, media, their imagination and most dangerous, the “bad” boys and girls in school! How can that be healthy or safe to our kids?
One of the mothers told me “sex is a private matter, should not be open for public discussion”! But so is going to the bathroom (sorry). Yet, they taught us in school all about the intestines and the digestive system. The children, at an early age know hygiene requirements. They can easily tell if they have urinary infection, constipation or diarrhea (very sorry). Do they have the same solid information about their reproductive system?
Lack of sex education at an early stage is the root cause to many of the problems adults face. By the time a young men or women are ready for marriage their heads are filled with superstitions, baseless anecdotes, myths, and unrealistic expectations. This contributes to many medical, psychological and social problems like infertility, impotence, sexual and gender identity disorders, domestic violence, divorce, infidelity .. and many others.
A mother told me that they will learn about all that in the Islamic Studies class. I don’t know about the current Islamic Studies curriculum, but the one I took had nothing of substance. I remember reciting the words (الجماع ، الاحتلام ، الحيض) and getting full grades in the tests without knowing what they meant. One time I asked my teacher about what (حيض) period meant. And she laughed and said “you’ll know when it comes to you” !!! Can you imagine the horror? Waiting for it to come!
Another told me: “when they are old enough they will ask us or find answers in books or the internet”!!! When is “old enough”? Which child in his/her right mind will come and ask their parents? How do we guarantee that the books, or even worse the internet sites, they seek will have the right information? What about the damage done till then?
My Question: What do you think about sexual education as a solid part of formal school education? What age/ grade school most appropriate?
37 comments:
A brilliant issue Ummel3yal, I commend you for this post. Indeed; lots of problems can be solved when the right quality and the right quantity of sex information is passed in school curriculum. Leaving this task to parents is not the right route; some parents are ignorant themselves, they were raised to believe that sex is a taboo that should not be discussed, of some are highly educated but don’t know how to deal with this matter with their children. And like you, I used books and indirectly gave information whenever the conversation allowed the conversion to this topic, cause I found that kids learn from their peers to be discrete about it, especially with their parents. This made my task harder.
Sex education; like any subject should be well researched, scientifically prepared before including it in school curriculum. It should not be correlated with religion in any way. Purely scientific, including all the information the young minds need to know to be able to understand his/her body better and also to treasure it and guard it.
Allah yikhaleech, let them first refrain from repeating that woman’s body is najis during her period wi ba3dain nifaker fi sex education :p
ba3d elsemo7a, mother dearest, let me refer to ayya for a second..
ayya you concluded:
"let them first refrain from repeating that woman’s body is najis during her period wi ba3dain nifaker fi sex education"
i think you need to do some researching yourself before you present whatever it is you want to present on the basis of your having a case.. i am sure you can attest to the fact that i have had a number of discussions going back and forth with yourself mainly on your space, but then i have come to the conclusion that you get way over your head without the sufficient research or understanding required to argue for or against a certain point of view.
yes, i am saying that it is my opinion that you are someone who takes a lot of things for granted and that you need to think before you write. and yes, i do think you come off as someone who is prejudiced and cannot be bothered to come to terms with the fact that almost nothing is as simple or 'cut in perfect halves' as you try to tell yourself it could be. i personally think that is such a shame.
elmohem simply put, 'faagid elshay la yo36eeh'
o ham ba3ad anyway, a man's body is considered najis etha kan 3ala janaba .. but then again, i'd be damned like a 3 dollar bill if i did not think you already knew that as you always seem to know everything once it is pointed out :)
which leaves me to think: what was your point anyway, wela el mas'ala bas lagh6 zayid o 7ob le 7asho ilkalaam? o kel3am wenty bkhair :)
mumsy,
i'm not sure what you mean in saying that 'something', which i'm guessing is the absence of sex education in schools/parenting, contributes to things such as domestic violence or impotence and the like
do i think sex education is important?
prerequisite: what is sex education?
personally, i believe that a "sit-down" is in order once kids hit puberty, and both parents should take participation.
namely, o 3alashan agheth ayya, to teach them about el ghusl for example, after first talking to them about how the body "works".
books can help, sure.. but then again i'm a firm believer that if a parent maintains her/his status as a 'parent' while definitely being a friend to her/his kids, then there is nothing to be left unattended.
ma wedy azeed, lena wedy belawal afham shkenty tagsideen 7athretich lama reba6tay ma bain mowathee3 ejtema3eya/biologiya/nafsiya ma3a the absence of sex education
"haich lo haik", kol el 6orog to'ady ela roma ..
Waaaay temetwir.
You do it yet again.
Inta mit2akid ur not a secret member of our family?
"Mumsy" is another of our famous words :P
I should stop being surprised.
Umna il7anon: I read ur post as soon as u published and could not reply, because as usual ur post requires a lot of thought in replying, so ill leave it to a better time. Or maybe ill wait and see what everyone has to say about this issue.
Good Morning Everybody :)
Gasheema el7keema,
Thank you for having the courage to go first ;) One more time and you get a free one way ticket Canada-Kuwait .. ;)
I agree that parents role in pivotal. Books and teachers are important as support. For example, I needed the books to know how and how much can I present information to them. The books also helped my give structure to the discussions.
Unfortunately many parents though motivated to do the "right" thing they lack the "right" knowledge. In many cases they approach their kids because they, as parents, suffered from lack or misleading info. Books and schools should help those parents!
AyyA Love,
I really know what you mean. I had the "where babies come from" talk when the eldest was about 5. They were all open to discussions and had many questions as they grew up.
But when it came to puberty they were more "shy" to speak up. The books gave them the relief that they were not "alone" and that their feelings and emotions are "normal".
I agree that when the religious perspective comes before the physiological knowledge, it can me confusing.
When the religious perspective is biased and sexist it's a complete mess :)
Temi my dear,
Now I know why you were absent all Ramadan :)
I won't defend AyyA for two reasons, one because I was clearly "excluded" from the discussion, second because I am sure Ayya can defend herself :)
But, I can not accept personal attacks on my blog :( As my other son Che said, you can attack ideas as much as you wish, but do not make it personal please!
As for your question:
Many physiological and social problems have psychological roots. Distorted and lacking sexual information in many times lead to false and distorted expectations. This definitely leads to performance and/or physical problems - this is a scientific fact.
For example, when a man is raised in an environment where he is taught that sex is bad and wrong, he is destined to develop performance problems even if on a conscious level he knows that belief is not true.
When a man (or a woman) lack the tool of satisfying or being satisfied sexually he/she will be violent and aggressive (especially men) and will end up beating his wife and kids .. there are many other examples I would love to share with you, but I think you get what I mean now.
Another more critical issue is learning to protect their bodies. Children without the proper knowledge can not identify sexual molestation especially when it comes from a family member they trust. Many of the problems I listed indicated that the person was a victim of such assult. If kids do not know what is ok and what is not they will be an easy prey for predators :(
I am not saying that the above required information should be taught for small kids - I know this is your next Q. ;)
What I mean is that gradual intake of correct and scientific information lay the ground for healthy psycholigical development. Having reliable sources (other than the Playboy magazine and porn movies) gives the right information on how to enjoy sex and please your partner without false and unrealistic expectations from yourself or your partner.
I disagree that parents should talk to their kids at puberty. At this stage it would be too late.
For example, my son is the sweetest and most polite boy for his age. He is an A student with a very picky taste for friends. After reading the book (at age of 10), he came and we talked for more than 3 hours about many things.
After we almost concluded the discussions, he said, "can I tell you a secret?". And he was blushing and avoiding eye contact. He said that he too have been having erotic dreams as said in the book and he was so scared that he was becoming a "bad boy". He felt relieved that all boys go through that! Internally I was screaming "my innocent and small boy?!!" But I put an effort to stay calm and objectives and carry on the discussions.
By the time he hit puberty 3 or 4 years later he would have been convinced that he is a bad boy! I would not have known about his worries if we did not have that talk early on.
Hope that clears where I'm coming from :)
DR 7yati,
Take your time, but we need a Dr. take on this ;)
Che dearest,
I totally agree with the "cultural" sensitivity issue. This is why it was so challenging finding the right book.
But then there are cultural influences that need to be addressed! For example, I remember learning the meaning of homosexuality at the age of 20+ when I began traveling and meeting people from diverse backgrounds.
One time my youngest daughter when she was 8 came to me as asked "what is the other meaning of gay ?!". I tried to outsmart her and said "gay means happy". She gave me that look and said "I said the 'other' meaning". I found out she got it from a Disney show!!
As much as I want to be ready for my children questions, they are always two steps ahead !
Thank you for your comments to Temi and for staying out of personal attacks. Can I ask you that we stay on the subject :) We will discuss the "good" Israelis fi 7laghatin ghadima insha2llah :))
Love you all !
ummel3yal,
First of all, I don't have kids but I can NOT imagine myself having this discussion with them! It takes courage, toolat bal, and a good poker face to maintain self-esteem! Really, congratulations lol
Second, I agree with you and Ayya and it's very much linked to Che's comment. Cultural sensitivity. Yet the biggest challenge would be, is talking about birth control, or protection against STD's. It is important kids understand the dangers of having unprotected sex, but does talking about protection give them the green light to go ahead and try it?
I guess that would be the biggest fear.
Temi,
7ubi,
I know you didn't address me in your comment and I should stay away. But I love you and it's hard for me to shut up :-)
We've had this discussion before, don't let your passion overcome your beautiful mind :-*
Ba3ad ithnich Ummel3yal
teme
Wow, that was a hell of a vent wasn’t it?
But, to claim that I know everything is to announce my ignorance, no one knows everything. Yet, I do have my own opinion about things, if you disagree with them, let’s have a debate, I will promise to keep an open mind, but I expect you to do the same, and let’s see who can convince the other, and who knows; yimkin taksib feeni thawab ;)
Ummel3eyal
You know, although I spend a quality time with my son regarding this issue and others, when my son had his first wet dream I was in the States for a conference. He went to ask his dad what was he suppose to do, his dad who is well educated, much above average, asked him to call me.
I think with your post here and prole’s comment, you both addressed a very important issue; parents need sex education, the society needs sex education, we should stop treating it a taboo, and start looking at it from a different perspective, we should not give it more importance than it deserves, nor ignore it as if it’s an alien.
Prole
Thanks dude I appreciate it really, but me and Teme go a long way, so no offence is taken :D
proletarian,
"What you did is that you criticized ayya"
yes, i was addressing her and her constant behaviour. if you wish, you can go browse through her blog and take a look over the many discussions we had and on which i have based my observations
"You did not criticize ayya ideas."
i discuss ideas, as i do not claim i have the exclusive right to being right
"You are a typical ignorant who talk and then think."
i wouldn't take your word for it
"he more I see your like, the more I understand that Islamic education (whether in the house or school) has to be changed."
a. what 'like'?
b. what is it about what i said that makes you better understand 'islamic education'?
c. what do you know about my house? my parents? my family? my schooling? i.e. how did you make the connection between one comment i addressed personally to ayya, and what you wish to think it meant?
"By the way not all Israelis are bad some of them are better than a million Moslems; I know them personally."
israelis = ppl who share a nationality
muslims = ppl who share a religion by name
i don't care where that came from, or what that even means, but i'm just interested: what were you saying about rational thinking again? :)
ayya,
to answer your question, no, it wasn't one 'hell of a vent', it was me being honest.. you and i 'go back' respective to the number of times we crossed paths over a given span of time, and if the fine people here do not know that, then that's on them and they can wish to think whatever it is they wish to think..
i have debated with you before, and if you have already forgotten, you were the one who summed up my being and the way i was raised as well as my education once i have raised a point or two about your opinions and way of presentation last time.. the times before were numerous, of which were regarding the war on lebanon to refresh your memory.
regardless, my point here was to note out that it is my contention that you had absolutely no reason to mention what you have mentioned about a woman's body on the grounds of it being irrelative
prove me wrong and then we'll see what's up :)
mumsy,
i don't think i 'insulted' ayya, and i don't think ayya would consider what i said to be an insult.
if she did, then i am sorry for what she has come to understand
arfana,
will keep that in mind,
chairz
since most girls hit puberty faster than boys, i think the proper age is 8 for both genders in school to start teaching them simple ideas to what goes in their minds, my 5 year old boy asked his mom, i want a boy brother bring him tomorrow hehehe, and when she told him go tell dad, he said what's dad got to do with it ! heeey i execute the orders boy lol....... will i explained to him in a simple way that in order to get a baby me and mom have decide, he didnt ask further questions ( yet ) but soon he will ask.... why i have this and girls have that ! why and why and why, will i tell him go ask mom hehehe or expect school to answer him, i prefer to answer him and the books you chose are nice.
we need sex education in schools, i remember in my public school, i was 13 years old, and didnt have the slightest idea about sexual matters, until my good old friends explained it to me in their own unique way hehe... the teacher in science class skipped the pages about human sexual orgins ! whyyyyy i was anticipating that lesson all year long hehehe....
parents played the go ask mom go ask dad game and got no answer to my questions.
sexual education needed in the country, not only for kids, many adults lack knowledge about many aspects, thank god we have now professionals such as Dr. Fawzia drai3 helping out clueless people..
very nice post, salute
7obi Arfana,
When I first had the talk with my son we were both laughing and can not get to talk straight for a complete minute :) We were both embarrased and afraid. But by the time I got to talk to my daughters, I became more "experienced" :)
As for the issue of STDs and protected sex, yes there is a possibility that they get the idea that its ok to have sex as long as you're protected. But that possibility is always there even if you don't have that talk. It is up to the parent to clear that issue and stress on the values and belifs he/she edorse.
Currently my 3 kids are reading 3 great books I was suprised to find at Virgin: Smoking, Drugs and HIV & AIDS. Each one read one book and then each prepared a powerpoint presenation to the rest of us. I thought about you when my daughter elightened us with the street names of Marijuana .. LOL .. But the discussions we had helped them out realizing how easy it is for someone to trick them into experimenting. They also made the ties between drugs and alcohol and the possibility of cotracting STDs.
So my experience is: when you keep talking to your kids and give them solid and scientific facts they are much more potected against the influence of others. But as any parent will tell you there are never guarantees!
AyyA love,
LoooL ... I know what you mean :) My kids' father was against the books and then claimed credit when he saw the benifits :))
Honestly, my children would prefer coming to me, my sister and my father with questions and for advice that going to their father or my mother. I bring my parents to the picture to show you a trend across generations. I am trying to give them the enviroment that my father gave us as we grew up. My mother on the other hand is a represenation of the typical Kuwaiti mentality of avoiding sensitive issues in a hope they will resolve themselves or disapear :) (note the similarity to the Goverment approach to things). We are rarely taught to confront our fears or anxieties and that, unfortunately is not someting nice to pass to your kids :)
Temi 7biby,
Thank you for understanding :)
I know that you did not insult AyyA, I did not say you did. I know you won't. But there is a difference between attacking an idea and attacking a person.
For example, I love you and Proletatarian just the same despite the fact that you represent opposing extremes. I agree with both of you on many issues and diagree on others. That does not make any one of you worse or better than his brother :)
It is a great gift I gave to myself learing to respect others irrespectful of their beliefs and philosophies. It gave me a chance to learn a lot!
As for the najasa thing, I again assert that this should not be the entry point to discussing grwoth and puberty. And this is what they did in schools at the time I was growing up.
What heppens is that the Islamic Studies classes make you feel bad and dirty personally for someting that is beyond your control. What is the point of that?
The more psychologically fit approach is teaching kids what is means to grow up and how to celebrate their changes. Then, when enough self-esteem is built you can discuss how these changes affect praying and fasting ,, etc.
I am not sure if its a gender difference, but the former approach is extremely damaging for little girls.
Fuzzzzzzzzy,
I missed you :) Hope you've had a great break!
Show me your ID please before we get into the discussions ;)
When my kids first asked about where babies came from we talked about it in general and extremely simple terms without the "drama" :)
As they grew older and started to ask more detailed questions, I got them a book called "Where did I come from" which basically talked about the birds and bees.
The discussions became more complex as they grew but to them it was an abstract. Nothing personal! But when they got closer the puberty they were a lot more shy to ask questions. This is where I think the parents should become more proactive.
I know what you mean about schools. My son's teacher actually sent him to me for answers !!
I also agree that the whole society need sex ed. and many other forms of educations :)
Great to have you back!
Salam UmmEl3yal :*
I skimmed through your post and didn't manage to read most of the comments, so I hope what am about to say is correct about the subject and am not repeating what others have already said.
We have to make a clear distinction between sex education and that of the male and female reproductive systems and puberty.
Sex education is being taught in the West because they need to control STDs and teenage pregnancies. They are teaching Safe Sex as a major part of their sex education. For example, Holland has a very low incidence of teenage pregnancy (UK being the highest) because they are introducing their sex education in schools as early as kindergartens! Yup! That early in life.
But I don't think in our Islamic society we need that kind of education, simply because having sex to other than your spouse is not allowed.
Nevertheless, we need to introduce the kids to their reproductive systems and the changes thereafter in life, before they even take place. I think that's a very imprtant talk any mother or father should have with their kids.
As for schools, I don't know about them nowadays, but we were educated about our periods in secondary school. I was ready back then :P (I believe kids nowadays are ready to have sex even, from all the info they can get anywhere :s)
With all due respect, UmmEl3yal :* but if I understood correctly, I don't agree with giving our kids the 'proper' Americanized books to teach them about their reproductive system AND safe sex. It's like you're telling them, it's OK to have sex as long as it is safe. I would have suggested a nice little talk from you (with illustrations and cartoons) about their bodies and the changes thereafter without the need o go into 'safe sex' eductation. This, of course, does NOT mean that you can't tell them about sex, should they ask. I would explain the act, pregnancy, and child birth (that should disgust them enough NOT to have sex in the first place lol), but I'd make sure to mention that it is not islamically allowed w/o marriage (which am sure you did :)).
Anyhoo.. hope I wasn't redundant or misled in any way. I bid you farewell for now and I'll see you inshallah when chances permit :**
(If you have msn, please feel free to add me :))
Salam
Witty dear,
Sex Ed. is all about the sexual development of children (pubery, higeine, health .. etc.) It is not really about sexual activity or act. Thus, Churches and Liberal school teach sex ed, the cultural and values issues are what distinguish one program from another.
I really did not say "it's OK to have sex as long as it is safe" .. but I will forgive you since you have exams and all ;)
I actually said the exact opposite in my post. One of my selection criteria for those books, was that they do NOT promote such idea!
You concern was echoed in Proletarian and Arfana questions and I replied accordingly.
Talking is great, but from experience, kids need references to return to till they get the idea. They are typically scared and embarrased during the talks that they do not comprehend everything said. Books allow them to digest the info at their own base.
Good luck hon with your school work. Look out for me on msn soon ;)
UmmEl3yal love :))
I didn't think or implied you said safe sex is OK :) My last remark in that subject reflects my confidence in your teachings and values :*** Your generosity in forgiving my tiredness and current state of mind is highl appreciated :))) intee el kebeera bardoh yal mastermind ;) hehe
I apologise again for any redundancy or misunderstanding :))
Salamz :)
You'll find my e-mail in my profile .. see ya later :*
UmmEl3yal hon :)
I just realized that e-mail wasn't made public. It's there now, sorry about that :*
Salam
Witty love,
I went to your blog to get your address and got MoD comment. So I knew it's coming soon ;)
Love ya!
Ghaseema El7keema,
It takes a good person to identify a good act ;) I love all my children and very proud of them especially AyyA, Temi, Che and yourself :))
Love you 3!
Allow me dear mother whom I think is probably my age ;)
Teme
I think our dear spiritual mother had properly answered your question and to add to her, this is the type of education that I’m against. And as per our previous discussions about other subjects, I do not think that this is the proper place to discuss it, nor the right subject, at least it’s not fair to Ummel3yal’s post which I think of as being of high importance, and looking forward to see more opinions about it.
Gasheemah
Thanks dear, hatha min aslich el6ayib
AyyA love,
You are 103 too?! Hmmm .. That's ok, I have children who are 20 years older than I am ;)
I love your professionalism. And I agree - as a side issue - that all schools curriculums need major reconstruction .. well, that might be a topic to a future post. Who knows ?!
Dear Ummel3yal el7elween :*
I was here for a quick look and acknowledgement so that people wont forget about me. (I have to admit People here refers to "you" and some other dear bloggers) but I was shocked as usual with your topic which requires a thorough thinking and analysis! I spent over 20 mins reading across the comments and that's beyond my intention as you know am still stuck with the paper :( well I could keep things stagnant or take a "nose dive" in this intersting topic but that would a shame to such a contravercial issue!! I need to spend time thinking and sending a clear opinion across and that's kind of impossible within the given time and space ;P as I see my blog-pals have unleashed almost all point of views and because you know I can't just have another comment ;) I will refrain from participating this time and I hope you understand my point!
Just want you to know that I'm impressed with your selection!
Just a quick response: It depends! My answer depends on the "How" rather than "what" is delivered to our kids as sexual information. Even if the curriculum was written properly, can we guarantee the method of delivery?
Lots of Love,
Geish@
mumsy,
*quite messy le'any barradt o al7een yay emshatat thehny*
i think it must be first established and agreed upon that there are stages to growth, growth which in itself is divided to areas, or let us say, specific-kinds-of growth.
i refer to the stages of speech for example, or language acquisition as another, and from there acknowledge the fact that awareness (as in 'growing to be more aware') expands into the not merely visible, and the not exactly 'innocent'.
what is that time? i'm contending that it is roughly around the time of puberty - especially for girls as they naturally 'mature' more rapidly.
the reasons for my contention may vary, but most prominent i think is the fact that to speak about and teach sex education, there must first be understanding on the part of the child that what is being said is as 'informative' as teaching them table manners
intermission filem hendy: now, you refer to the school system and the islamic studies classes in particular, i for one do not recall anything from there, as my 'education' about my faith surely did not come from a bucnh of wahabis who want to sell their sect as the exclusively rightful.
nor do i wish to dignify any remarks regarding them (wahabis) as being the 'spokespersons' for my faith .. simply because i'm not obliged to teach history nor politics, but i am only inclined to discuss it.
if this is going to turn into a 'govt islamic studies textbook bashing', then i first need to read and see what's up because i have no idea what in particular ur referring to, although i state it beforehand that chances are i will argue against the wahabi-lessons for reasons varyin in nature, of which political are some and others "met3alga bel 3ageeda" that surely no one lacking faith in religion (in this case, ilislam) will come to comprehend.
if i did not know about human anatomy and i had nothing to show for saying that i did know about human anatomy, then i would be quite the ninny if i insisted on arguing against surgeons and telling them that i know best because i was not 'confined to textbooks', now wouldnt i?
quite the rant, it must be noted, but nevertheless related in my mind ..
let's just say that: we tell very young (3-9yr old) children 'la takheth shay mn a7ad bel madrisa', or 'la tesma3 kalam a7ad ghareeb etha naadaak lama ana ma akon ma3ak', but u dont really tell them what could happen because u have the pressumption that he or she doesnt need to know why, he just needs to know what.
all i can say is.. part of growing up is figuring things out yourself..
to hell with textbook parenting, i prefer staying old school
7akeema,
thank you for seeing it for what it is :)
ayya,
i'm not impressed.
you are yet to show for the relevance of your initial remark as a case of straightforward courtesy.
and yes, it is not fair for the purpose of this post that you wish to undermine something which i am still being led to believe you did not research thoroughly to have come to understand, let alone present it as being something which it is not.
if you wish that i do not take you seriously, then i'm sure that that too can be arranged
and proletarian,
you too kind sir have yet to sustain your inclination to thinking that i am "a typical ignorant who talks and then thinks" with reason, as well as to make me better understand what "my like" means and how it is related, or better yet, what it has to do with your better coming to understand "Islamic education at school or home"
again, if you wish that i do not take you seriously and not hold with regard what you have to say as coming from an adult who masters 'rational thinking', then, again, i'm sure something can be arranged
Geish@ love ..
Great to hear from you :) How is the paper turning up?
I totally agree that the How is just as important as the What!
Even in totally technical subjects like Math and Physics, the teachers make a lot of difference.
When it comes to sensitive and less concrete subjects such as philosophy, psychology and religion, the role of the teacher becomes more crucial.
Sex ed. can give the child a sense of relief and comfort if well delivered. It can turn into a guilt and confusion trip if mishandled.
As many said in this post, the teachers and the parents need to know what is it that they’re talking about in the first place before addressing children.
Temim dear :)
My kids have this look when I lose them in one of my “lectures” .. they go “Haaaa?!!” .. I had one of those Ha?! moment read your reply :)
What do you mean “barradt” ? Do you have cold? Hope not :( Salamat anyway and keep me posted.
So this is what I think I understood from you, correct me if I’m wrong:
We agree the sexual development is a natural phase of human development. Actually there are special branches in physiology and psychology that specializes in the overall developmental stages of humans from birth to death. Linguistic development in another facet of such development (physiologically and cognitively).
Then the part where you lost me (the table manners). I’m guessing you’re saying the kids should learn for the sake of knowledge and not for sake of skill and practice :) This is true if we were talking about sexual activity. But this is not what sex ed. is about as I explained to Witty. It’s about what to expect and how to handle the changes in your emotions, bodies and thinking. So I think we agree on the principle at least.
I liked elfilm elhindi ;)
I agree on the Wahabi school, but unfortunately that is the curriculum I was taught ages ago and the influence is still there in schools (teachers) and curriculum (books).
I am lost again with the surgeon analogy :( And the don’t talk to strangers one :( .. Sorry!
I would say that though, not sure if this is related to what you were trying to say, I can tell my son “don’t have sex” or “sex with a girlfriend 7ram” or “don’t let anyone touch your privates” as “most” parents do. But how many teens actually do? The major sign of adolescence is rebellion. The other sign is belonging to a “shilla” whoever those are. So giving orders and instructions won’t really work. You introduce logic, scientific facts and maintain open communication o matla7ag ras! What about those who do not have aware and involved parents (wa hom kothoron).
Your statement “part of growing up is figuring things out yourself” is very alarming to me and this is exactly what I’m suggesting sex ed. Because most probably by the time a teen “figures things out” by trial and error or his friends’ advice he would have lost his virginity, contracted an STD, established a sick or unrealistic expectations of himself and the others, married too young, fell under the influence of the Salaf because they offer him redemption for his “sick” thoughts .. .
My comments are per my understanding of yours :) Correct me please if I misunderstood ;)
As for you, AyyA and Che, I will allow you all to grow up and "figures things out" on your own ;)
ommy oryaana,
- with 'barradt', i meant that i 'cooled down' and lost track of the chronology and order of my argument and thus it may have come out a bit unclear :)
- sure, we agree that sexual development is one part of the wider sense of 'growth'
- the analogy to teaching them about table manners was an attempt to illustrate that kids need to learn about stuff even if they dont fully understand why or what they should do what they're told to do.
if i hear my 3yr old daughter saying a bad word, then i wouldnt sit down with her, define the bad word, tell her in what contexts it is used, who uses it, and therefore why she shouldnt use it..
simply because 'growth' is an ongoing process (which i like to think is then substituted with maturity after the physical part is satisfied), and all i'm saying is that puberty seems like a very good "point" to introduce sex education to children because u know they will understand what is going on and what ur telling them (what u mention of scientific facts for example)
- il wahabiya is prominent for political reasons. anyone who knows anything about il islam can conclude in a second that they do not fall under the 4 a'ema for ilsinna, nor the shee3a ilithna 3ashariya.
that said, if someone quotes ilzaydeya mathalan as "the source" for what "islam is about" and judges the faith on that basis, then i would not dignify such ignorance with a respective response.
hence, nor would i dignify with a reply all that is taken from il7araka ilwahabiya.
- your scenario of what could happen if someone were to come to terms with what s/he figured out growing up alone is extreme, and is not what i meant.
be that as it may, your example completely shatters the role of the parents in actually raising their kids.
whatever happened to that?
ilzebda al7een, yes, i think sex education as you mean it should be introduced to children by their parents. and i think puberty is a very reasonable age because it is at that time that the most evident changes occur for them. but no, "el nasayi7" wont start at puberty, they will at a much earlier stage.
personally, i dont think ill do it like you did by handing them the books and waiting for them to come back with questions and thoughts to discuss.
UmmEl3yal hon :*
Yabatni Dilli men my hibernation fa gelt a3alleq here as I did in our blog. But I was overwhelmed by the length of the comments and couldn't read any (due to lack of time not interest).
So I thought I'd say: HI, and leave quietly :D
Salam :*
Temi dear :)
I understand now! Thank you :) Next time try to be sensitive for the elderly and generation gap :)) I already began writing you my chicken soup recipe ;)
I agree with what you said. Again, when you ask where are the parents you are suggesting that they provide guidance and hence do not leave the kids experiment their way through life .. so we agree again! And yes, I meant to use extreme examples so you can see the danger. But, there are less extreme but more frequent examples, like girls contracting infections for lack of clear hygiene awareness (and I don't refer to wodo2 and ghosool here) and boys trying out cigarettes and damaging their lungs permenantly. Most kids and most parents have no idea that even 1 month of smoking can create irreversable damage. Again just examples of what can go wrong if kids don't have a clear, scientific and easy to understand information.
As I said to Ghasheema and Witty (and I'm not sure where the confusion is coming from) the books were an entry point for a serious discussion and not a stand-alone guidance. Why? Because at this age and with such an embarrasing issue to them, they need a reference they can return to at their convinience. You guys make me doubt my communiaction/writing abilities :)
And, as a developmental issue that goes on since birth, this will not be a new and "surprise" issue to talk or read about at a certain age. Their will be lots of bit and pieces of information that they get as they grow. As Fuzzy said, at the age of 4 they begin questionning their anatomical differences, and around 5 they begin showing real interest in how children are made, girls at ages as early as 7 or 8 begin suffering from yeast infections and others. This is all part of their psychological and physiological sexual development. That is why such information is intorduced in proper schools as early as the 3rd grade. And involved parents begin discussing these issues at a much earlier stage.
I think inik hawashti 3la mawthoo3 elzaydiya, but not sure why .. LOL.
I am referring to the Kuwaiti Islamic Studies teachings as per the Ministry of Education's publications. I have no idea what are their sources. My concern is the damage they cause to our kids.
One of us emthaye3 or both of us .. Not good at all :) What would the others say about my parenting skills?! lol
Witty 7bibty,
7yach allah .. great to see you!
Sorry 3la ele6ala .. I do tend to "talk" a lot when I 'm passionate about a subject .. Sorry :(
I will e-mail you and executive summary ;)
i didnt read the books u gave ur kids...but if its what i think then i beleive what u did was very civilized and correct..in this sad world of ours parents are n favour of the saying ((7'0thoo fa 3'olooo))...since they cant face the facts and questions they created the word forbidden...
we need to educate the parents first to have sexually healthy teenagers..
nice subject ;)
Hala wallah me .. you ;)
Welcome to our little diwaniya :) Really glad to "meet" you!
I truly know what you mean. Part of my reason for addressing this issue with my kids and dicussing it here with you is what I suffered going through it all on my own. My mother isn't big on talking about sensitive and/or private issues. And I never knew "experienced" girls. So I had to learn everything the hard way. It is not something I wish on any child!
Thank you for steping by.. do come again :)
Ummel3yal
Just wanted to tell you that Jewaira also published about the same topic (almost) sometime back, in her Condom Machine post. And I believe it’s worth seeing the different opinions about the topic there as well.
As for public education issue; I think the most important issue that should be addressed widely, and on all blogs is this issue, thanks
why cant kids grasp the issue
بالفطرة
heh !
Fuzzy
I think elfi6rah is there, kids can feel it, yet they don’t know how to deal with it, but the problem comes when we keep a hush hush attitude about it, the mystery makes it more exciting to them, and this is where the danger hits, they tend to explore it with the wrong sources. I remember one time when my daughter was around four (eldest); she had her cousin sleeping over. And as I was passing her bedroom at night I overheard the cousin saying to her how horrible her father was for hurting her mother, apparently she had entered her parents’ bedroom by mistake while they were having sex and she was trying to demonstrate to my daughter the situation she found her parents in. here I could not stand helpless, I had to barge in the room and tell them that I have overheard what they were saying and had to explain few things. I remember at that time being so confused, not knowing how much information I should give since I was almost a kid myself (actually I found myself sweating and stuttering with words). I think it was the shock of finding out that kids could know about this stuff at that early age, which I was not prepared for. That night I did not leave their bedroom until I made sure they were both asleep. Next day I ran to a bookshop and got me some child psychology books. You may think that this is an easy job, but only parents know how hard it is. It is a very sensitive issue and kids are much smarter than we give them credit for. And of course after that incident I strictly forbade sleeping over. Well; the firstborn is always a Guinea pig, they teach parents a lot, and when someone like ummel3yal and me talk about these matters, we are talking out of experience and not just a theory.
ayya
yeah i know exactly what you mean :)
my kids are still ( guess ) young, and when the time comes to discuss such issues hmmm ill be a typical male and say " go ask you mom "
:P
but seriously, this issue is very sensative, and some parents are afraid that they are teaching their kids too much at an early age.
but on the other hand, we cant wait til the wedding day and say " here son, this is the summary of what you have to do tonight " !
Hi Guys,
Sorry for the late replies. I was out of the country for few days.
AyyA,
Thanks for the link and for sharing your experience with us! You are absolutely true we do need guidance to know how much is needed and what is the best way to deliver this information. Another factor that plays a role is the kid's personality and learning style. Not all kids get things the same way! It is a challange ;)
Fuzzy,
The problem with instinct and humans is that our instincts are distorted by media and cotrolled by our social cotracts. This is very hard for children to sort. A puppy knows all it needs to know by sniffing other puppies butts .. It's hard for our kids to learn this way .. I think :))
I totally agree it is a very sensitive issue and too much information is as dangerous as too little. This is why books written by child psychologists help.
Thank you all for a rich discussion. Love you !
I think thatteens should know that most parents would be very relieved to be asked a question and would welcome the chance to explain anything that a teen would like more knowledge about...
Post a Comment